Company: Lifeblue
Founders: Phillip Blackmon & Russel Dubree
Year Started: 2006
Employees: 51 – 100
“An Agency Story” is a podcast series that delves into the journeys of agency leaders, uncovering their trials, triumphs, and the unique paths that have shaped their businesses. In this milestone episode, we meet Phillip Blackmon, Co-Founder and CEO of Lifeblue, a digital agency renowned for transforming physical spaces into dynamic digital experiences.
This episode is particularly special, marking the 100th episode of “An Agency Story” and revisiting the origins of the agency Phillip and the show’s host, Russel, co-founded 18 years ago. Together, they reflect on their evolution from ambitious young entrepreneurs to seasoned business leaders who have successfully navigated the complexities of scaling and selling a company.
Phillip recounts the early days of Lifeblue, born from a desire to revolutionize the traditional agency model. Driven by a shared passion for creating something meaningful, Phillip and his brother-in-law and business partner, Russel, embarked on a journey marked by a “figure it out as you go” mentality. Each challenge was met with determination, turning obstacles into valuable learning experiences.
Listeners will gain valuable insights as Phillip candidly discusses the importance of partnership, the challenges of rapid growth, and the strategic decisions that ultimately led to Lifeblue’s successful sale. His reflections are enriched with humorous and sometimes surreal anecdotes from their early office days in a rundown cotton mill, where the team faced everything from hazardous conditions to unexpected wildlife encounters. These stories, like the time the office was filled with paint fumes or when a hawk dive-bombed the team, offer a light-hearted yet profound look at the unpredictable journey of entrepreneurship.
As the episode concludes, Phillip and Russel share thought-provoking insights on balancing passion and practicality in business. They discuss the significance of taking risks, the value of a strong support system, and the importance of evolving with your company’s needs. This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in the behind-the-scenes of agency life, providing both inspiration and practical advice for aspiring entrepreneurs.
Tune in to hear Phillip and Russel’s full story, and walk away with new perspectives on leadership, growth, and the unpredictable adventure of building something great. Whether you’re just starting out or looking to scale, this episode of “An Agency Story” will leave you contemplating your next big move.
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Show Transcript
Welcome to An Agency Story podcast where we share real stories of marketing agency owners from around the world. From the excitement of starting up the first big sale, passion, doubt, fear, freedom, and the emotional rollercoaster of growth, hear it all on An Agency Story podcast. An Agency Story podcast is hosted by Russel Dubree, successful agency owner with an eight figure exit turned business coach. Enjoy the next agency story.
Russel:
Welcome to An Agency Story podcast, I’m your host Russel. In this very special 100th episode of An Agency Story podcast, I’m extremely grateful to be joined by the one and only Phillip Blackmong, the co-founder and CEO of Lifeblue based in Dallas, Texas. And for those of you that don’t know, Lifeblue is the agency that Phillip and I founded together almost 18, long years ago. In this episode, we discuss our journey from the early days of Lifeblue where a scrappy start in a rundown cotton mill fueled our passion to create meaningful digital experiences for clients. Learn how we went from almost down and out to our unique approach, to transforming physical spaces into dynamic digital platforms and made a name for ourselves in Dallas and beyond. Phillip shares his perspective on the pivotal moments that shaped the agency, including the time at hock made an unexpected visit to our office. Just another tale and the unpredictable yet rewarding path of entrepreneurship. Tune in to hear Phillip and I’s story of innovation, resilience, and the lessons learned from navigating the challenges of growing a digital agency, all the way to a sale and beyond. Enjoy the story. Welcome to the show today, everyone. Very special episode. I have longtime friend, brother in law, business partner, Philip Blackmon with Lifeblue with us here today. Thank you, Mr. Philip, for being on the show.
Phillip:
Thank you, Rusty, as I would say that as a family member, a friend, that’s how I know you, Russel in the professional world, but thanks for having me. I am so excited and I’ve been waiting for this moment to get a chance for us to sit down and talk and just share our story.
Russel:
You’ve been waiting a hundred episodes I think that this would have been better than having you on the first one. So I guess you’re normally, why just start off with a question? And I know the answer to this, but you can tell the folks at home, what does Lifeblue do and who do you do it for?
Phillip:
So Lifeblue, gosh, we’re a digital agency and we’re normally brought in for the simplest terms to help organizations with their digital product, digital service, website,web development apps we’re a service business. We primarily serve our customers in whatever technical and implementation needs they have in the true sense of a partnership, we spend a lot of time with them. We get to know them. We get an opportunity to help share and shape the future of their digital landscape, especially as so much of their business is moved into the digital world, which I say that in an interesting way, because who do we do it for? We work a lot in a physical destination, arts and culture, performing arts centers, zoos, aquariums, sports teams city, municipalities, places that have a physical location. And so our job a lot of times is to take that physical location, and that brand and that purpose of that organization and turn it into something digital. Even beyond just the physical location space we work a lot in non profits, which their goal is to help in the programmatic fields, whether it’s ending hunger and poverty or helping shape the future of science in America. And our job is to help them really digitize that, put that out there so that the general public can consume it on a phone, on a device, on a computer.
Russel:
Exactly as I would have said it or put it. Spoken so eloquently. So I imagine, a lot of folks are just wanting to hear so many more details about your story, our story. But before we get into all things agency, tell us about young Philip. What aspirations did he have?
Phillip:
I don’t even know if I remember. So much of my life has been shaped around our company. And we started it so young that sometimes I forget, maybe I’m just getting old. I forget what, yesterday was really like, and what I was meaning or wanting to do. More than what I’m in right now. And we tell the story a lot of our start and where we were. And so it feels like so much of my life is actually just began when Lifeblue began and when we had an opportunity to start our business together. But if I go before that, It’s funny. I think you and I both were entrepreneurs. We both were interested in creating something. I think I just was more interested in the aspiration of it all, the success accolade. You know, this, our family is a big Enneagram people. I’m an Enneagram three. And so part of it is the showmanship or just the success metric of succeeding in that and saying, I accomplished something. And so anything I put my mind to, even at my youngest age, it was always about just being great. Like I remember. One of my friends, when I was really young, we were playing basketball and he got mad at me. We were just kinda having fun and he’s like, why do you always have to be the best I was like, why would you do anything if you weren’t gonna be the best? And so I was like, there’s just no point in unless you’re gonna try to be the best at it. So I don’t know if I had aspirations of exactly what I wanted. I just knew I wanted to succeed at something, to, to say I was great. When I was a little kid and people ask I want to be in the MBA, I thought I was the greatest basketball player in the world. And when I, you know, only come to find out when you get cut from your team in high school, it’s really tough for you to ever make it. Not to mention I really was not that great. I, I’m still just a three point line to three point line kind of player. When I went to college. I really didn’t know in, in all reality, I probably was like one different turn from not making it through college, from failing out and not really graduating and instead probably family and friends helped me stay grounded, I found a path, and candidly, I had knew nothing about computers when I went to college, I didn’t even have one and I just stumbled into, computer programming.
Russel:
I’ve heard this story from your sister that old man, Richard would not supply a computer for the house. So you grew up very and of great technology desert.
Phillip:
No, we had a typewriter to do our papers on in school, and, and at the same time we, this, this was not like when typewriters were the main stay. This was a typewriter borrowed from the church.’cause he was not gonna put a computer in the house. So no, I did not have computers. Did not know computers. When I got to college, I didn’t know what I wanted to do. And I just sort of stumbled into computers, stumbled into, technology, and in some ways I just fell in love with it. It was maybe the first time I really found something that I truly loved and felt like I could be good at. And I still say to this day to everyone I talk to, find something you love because then it’s not a job. Starting our company young, I don’t think there’s a day in my life that I say it’s a job. Now it doesn’t mean it hasn’t been hard times, but it’s been a true passion and I’ve continued to be able to love it and, explore every aspect of it in that same light from the beginning to now.
Russel:
I mean, a couple of thoughts come to mind you sharing that one. I feel like the quote” if you’re not first, you’re last” from Ricky Bobby might apply to you as you’re sharing that story more than anyone I might’ve ever met. I don’t think that’s tattooed on anywhere, but if you’re ever going to get a tattoo, maybe that would be a good quote to get.
Phillip:
Oh, hell yeah. Hell yeah. That is a great, I mean. Right. What, again, if you’re not first, you’re last. It’s a great quote. Perfect quote for me.
Russel:
I often tell, kind of jokingly say, to your point of, I just want to do something entrepreneurial. And I think, and we really just wanted to do something together, but I was joking, if you’d have been a plumber, I think I would have started a plumbing business with you. And I’m sure you would have been an amazing exceptional plumber. I don’t know, we might be talking on a podcast. We’d just be talking about our plumbing business instead of a digital agency.
Phillip:
I wonder which one would be more successful. I mean, there’s probably a pros and cons to each, but I agree with you. I think, it’s interesting for us to do this podcast because I, I think, you know, we both have a perspective of the business, but we both share that, that common part of it. I tell a similar story, you know, to some of our team members that join when I get a chance to meet them and talk about. Our very beginning and a lot of new team members, right haven’t met you all the originals, you know, have, but a lot of them haven’t. So I tell about you and I tell about our story together, starting the business. And I tell them, I was like, look, I walked in the door one day and everyone’s like, Oh, you must be, you must’ve know what you want to do. You must’ve known everything. I was like, no. I saw an opportunity. I experienced part of being in an agency. I didn’t think it was great. I thought we could do it better. Maybe because I was young and thought I could do everything better at that time. And I still carry some of that maybe on, in me, just, if I, I think I could figure it out, I think I could go do it great, but I remember walking in the door, it was right around Halloween and I came in and, you were the only one that had kids, your kids and we were getting ready to trick or treat and I was like, we should start an agency, you’re like, I don’t know what that is, but hell yeah, let’s do it and so it’s like, sounds good, I’m in and I was like, I needed somebody else to go with me like I would never have done it alone. Like if you’ve been like, that’s a terrible idea, we’re not doing it. I never would have started the business and so much more about our partnership together allowed us to create the business to be successful than just you being willing to start that. But I also needed someone at the very beginning to say, Yes, let’s do it. Just like you say, Hey, I would have followed you to whatever it was because I wanted to create something. I think I needed it. I needed a partner to not think it was absolutely insane to go and try something.
Russel:
I don’t know if I’ve ever dropped an F bomb on this show, but I’ll say this is a worthy occasion for it. I think we definitely had that fuck it, ship it, approach in the early days, which was Probably ran us into some troubles, but but yeah, as you started to allude to that, I’d love to just hear your perspective and a little more detail on just how life blew actually came to be.
Phillip:
I was working at an agency at the time and, I look back actually and I reflect on that time and I thought at the time that it wasn’t exactly what I thought an agency should be. Now being a part of an agency, you realize how many struggles an agency has, how many things you have to learn, how many people are involved in that process, the challenges of client service and I find it extremely rewarding but it is it can be difficult right there are challenges to it Um day in and day out to people to succeeding in a business and so I didn’t have all that backstory. I’d never started a business I had never run a business. So I just looked at that business and thought well They’re doing everything wrong and I can do so much better and I just think this is the right opportunity. Part of it too, I was also driving from my brand new house that I just bought my wife that I really couldn’t afford, two hours a day in a car, stuck in traffic, and it was just killing me. And I just thought it was a terrible thing to do. A terrible amount of time. I did not want to be doing it. And so I was like, I already thought this maybe wasn’t the best way to run a business. And then I’m, I’m wasting my time doing this. I was like, this, this should be better. Like this, this life could be better or this, this business should be better. So I think that was kind of the, maybe the catalyst for the need or the desire to change. I always look at some of the very, intricate moments have started and like everyone always knows the end of the story like everyone knows about you and I selling our company and the success of that and the success we built and, and, uh, your story and all of those, but like the small moments all in between there. No one had it figured out. Like I didn’t have it figured out. You didn’t have it figured out.
Russel:
I would say even even the industry didn’t have it figured out I mean nobody knew what they were doing for to deliver this is a service at least in that time period.
Phillip:
Yeah, absolutely. Right. It was a digital agency. What did that even mean? Most things were borrowed from construction and from traditional agencies. Even the talent and the skill set, what was being taught was not there. And so it was all just sort of bootstrapped. Everything was bootstrapped. Our business was bootstrapped. The industry was bootstrapped. Service was bootstrapped and what clients even needed, like people, what they came to us with, like they didn’t know what they wanted, what they needed. And, and at that time we were just in survival mode. So you took on anything, you picked up anything. When we were first starting, you try to make yourself seem bigger than you are. We were renting out conference rooms. I was doing sales calls and in cars, not nowadays, right? It’s more normal. Like we’re on zoom and we’re used to this virtual environment. But like I was turning off the car so that you couldn’t hear the air conditioning blowing to make it sound like where I was at. We had an office that probably wasn’t even, allowed to be officed in from a legal standpoint. It was an old cotton mill, right? It just was all trying to get, keep it together, trying to keep it afloat, trying to figure things out. We said yes to everything, which by the way, if you want to know what you shouldn’t do is say yes to everything. But I look back on it and if we hadn’t said yes to everything, we wouldn’t learn. And if you don’t fail, it’s tough to learn. You learn a lot from all the failures you have. Uh. You learn what you don’t want to do again from failure. You, you feel like you had it figured out and you were so smart when you succeed. So I look back on it and I would tell people like, Oh, don’t try to be everything to everyone. Don’t try to do everything. But at the same time, I would tell you that I don’t know that our story would have mapped to where it was if we hadn’t had all those journeys. Now, I hope that there’s a lot of people out there that can learn from our own failures, but at the same time, sometimes you have to be there to learn. Sometimes you have to be a part of it to learn.
Russel:
You know, it is funny, you say that and I tend to. And you might be this way as well of just, I just learned about myself. I’m probably a guy that just needs to go up in the airplane, jump out of it, and then figure out if there’s, if I have a parachute one, and how do I make it all work on the way down? And it really is that experience that crafts you, builds you, shapes you, that just saying yes to things, I probably just didn’t know what the heck I was doing at certain times. So that just felt even more scarier versus it might’ve been just the next jump for you, but you do have to push yourself. And I really appreciate always finding ways to push us as a business. The way I often describe the first, I don’t know, five or so years is it was fun. It was exciting. It was invigorating. In some ways magical and we definitely had some projects we could probably talk about and name the same ones that were really exciting and successful. But I also tell you a time period where it was very stressful, very hectic, very chaotic, just lots of lessons to be learned, as you said. How do you look, if you encompass the first five years, what’s, how do you look back upon that time period?
Phillip:
I feel like this is what’s really interesting. In some ways I think we share the exact same feeling about it, but I think if you look at, um, as the business evolved over the first five years and the next five years, I think in some ways we, you and I might have a, a flip flopped experience in some of that, right. First five years of survival and, and at doing anything. I would say my role and your role were in different. We both took the parts that we felt most natural and most comfortable with and what we fit into. It was easiest for us to divide and conquer in those areas. You were a much more on the, operation and financial side. Which was probably, I would imagine in the first five years, the most stressful thing of all, because it’s, are we even going to make ends meet? How are we going to get all this work done? What the heck are we promising out in the world? What are we even taking on? As someone wants to recreate, you know, Facebook for 2, 000 and there’s just no way to do it, right? All the things that are just impossible during those first five years. And you had to bear the brunt of that. Yeah. And I feel like in the first five years I got to like explore the creativity of my own self and our business a little bit more. Because I was one out promising or talking to people and I learned a lot about what I should do. But you know, at that time he didn’t know. So I was just like, Oh yeah, heck yeah, we can do that. That sounds like a great idea. Of course we should do that in our business. Like those are great ideas. Like we should definitely be that. We weren’t looking at someone else’s manuscript or playbook on how to do this. So we were just inventing along the way. And I think that invention was exciting for me and that, I could feel the stress of the business, but I, I probably wasn’t, um, experienced enough to understand how much I was causing the stress of that upon our business. I look, and not to jump ahead, but I look at the next five years and I always feel like that’s those next five years were all about defining ourselves and like really honing in on who we were going to be. And I found that much harder and I found that much in a good way, right? It really helped us hone in and get into who we are. But I found that more difficult because I found it riskier because. When you’re willing to explore everything, it was easy to just be like, yeah, we’re always going to be fluid and do everything. When you had to put like a stamp on who you were going to be, it was like, what if people don’t like that? And, what if it doesn’t work? And what if you don’t succeed? And that was, a time period where we started to grow and add more people and more clients. Our clients were more public facing and people knew us. And so I just felt like that time for me was a lot more, Like all eyes were on, on what I was doing, um, as opposed to the first five years, all eyes were on, are we even going to make it?
Russel:
I think that’s what the interesting part about this episode, you’ll start to see the dichotomy of roles and just even the dichotomy of how we were approaching the business, which, call it yin and yang, which I think was a great part of our partnership. When you think back, I mean, you know, obviously you’re kind of, I think there’s a clear transition point and where things felt really bad and are just not going well as a business. And then the complete opposite side of that coin. I’m just curious what stands out to you when you think back in that general timeframe as a turning point for the business?
Phillip:
Gosh, I think there’s so many little things. I think back right around that time where it just and look, you’re a much more reflective person. I am and always have been, and in a good way. I live so much in today and what’s going to be next and then maybe what’s in the past. There’s a reason that you have a degree in history. You reflect on everything and then you apply all of those things to the success of the future. When I think back about it, like there’s just a couple of times where I feel like, we made some hard decisions as a business in both, projects, in people, in hiring, in, and I think, if I look at it, there, there’s a catalyst again, you were so much more internal on the people and I was so much more external on the client side. I feel like we really, in some ways, and I’m not, I’m, I’m not just saying this, like you and I didn’t sit down and we’re like, just, we’re gonna game plan this and we know exactly, it just naturally fell out but we also found our stride. But I feel like at, we were, we’re like always in this opposite of internally we were able to do this and externally we were wanting to do this. And I feel like there came a point where we were finally more in harmony where we were able to do. What we were wanting to do internally and we were able to share that and and execute on that and deliver on that on the client facing side. And we always put a lot of emphasis on our relationship with clients and serve first and serve others and serve our client. But I feel like we really, and I’m going to say this, I don’t think it was just you and I. I think, I feel like we have some really amazing people that joined us during that time. Some of them not here at Lifeblue anymore, and some of them still here at Lifeblue that really helped shape that future, understood that vision. But I feel like there was just a time where finally, we were not just, Saying we were going to do something and then not able to back it up, but we were actually able to back it up and a lot of times not only able to back it up, we were able to do it a million times better than we had even envisioned what our clients even envisioned. And I think, at that time, we got more strategic, we got more relationship driven, we got more partnership driven, we got more sophisticated in what we were delivering and, we grew up our client base, we grew up our operations. But more than anything, I think we just hit a stride and we hit a place where I felt like we, we both knew what we wanted to create and they really aligned. I think that, that made it so much easier for us to really, take each other’s strengths and apply those across everything that we were doing
Russel:
I think that’s really great. Just the thought point on that is, I felt like in those days, cause one, You had more of the skill and capability and be able to actually create the work and you had this vision for quality. I’m just kind of hearing you talk through that it reminds me of that. We finally figured out how to get other people in line with that where you’re saying that the delivery caught up with the vision of what a high end quality experience and product looked like that, that you were kind of selling from the beginning but the company wasn’t really capable in the early days of delivering. But I feel like this is a great time. Just even shout out to some of those people that did contribute. I always am thankful of the people that that this contribute right? Shyam and Derek and Johnny that, you know, those guys are still here today. And even the people that I. We probably didn’t do the best by in certain cases, they were part of our learning experience, but taught us so many things, so many other great folks that certainly helped in that journey. Then I feel like, once we figured that out, we were really able to leverage that and, and maximize that to the extent. I think like once we broke the million dollar barrier in 2012 or so, why 2013, 14, we’re a 5 million company. That’s a pretty quick growth for an agency in a relatively short amount of time. What do you think allowed us to do that so quickly?
Phillip:
So I think we kind of said it there in the last part of that, of just, having a shared vision, I think there are some, some pretty, and you even mentioned the people, some pretty remarkable people in that group and everybody that’s been at Lifeblue is, to your point, whether we had the best experience or gave them the best place to work or they brought something, everybody has helped shape this company still does. We are such a culture of the people that are here and in all reality, right? The people’s talents, time, attention to detail, all that is what we deliver a day in and day out. I tell people all the time, yes we build digital experiences, but really what we do is we just, we are a great company group of people that are so passionate about creating such amazing work that we’re able to use that creativity, that craftsmanship, that artistry to just flow out into the work that we create. But, you know, during that time, going from a million to five million, I think, you know, funny story here, um, for all those owners that are listening or anyone that’s listening out there, I always feel like there’s two types of people. There’s the people that really. You know, kind of not going to, but there’s two usually in the ownership category. There’s those that like dream and already thinking about where they’re want to be. And then those that are practical and real about where they’re really at. I think at the time, if you’d asked me, like we were a million dollars, I was probably already telling people were three because I was ready for us to be three. And then when we were three, I was telling people we were six, cause I was ready for us to be six, you know, type of thing. I think you were always more grounded. So I don’t know the exact time period when we were actually one. And when we were actually five, but I know the time period of when we were saying, or when we wanted to be those things. Because we work with clients, because we work with organizations, I think there’s some pretty significant, um, movements or just opportunities we had in client work. We got really focused in the Dallas Metroplex, which now is funny because we work so, nationally and internationally, but also that, no one is really tied necessarily to a city the same way they were after a pandemic. But at the time we really focused in Dallas. And we got personal with our clients. We started going to their offices all the time and we started bringing a lot of that learning, that culture of their organization back to us and then us back to them. I think it really increased our understanding of business, a business acumen of learning about things. I think at that time, the digital industry was starting to finally shape itself out. I always feel like our best evolutions have come more in line with projects. We could all sit in a room at the beginning of the year or throughout the year and be like, we want to be this and plan this. But really, if you reflect on it, like you, you plan all those things and then you go into the year and you’re like, actually, if you look back, we actually did a lot of those things. It just didn’t. Manifest the way we wanted to, and so I feel like a lot of that one to five was about really aligning people, really aligning projects, and then just having a great opportunity to work on some amazing stuff that really put our name on the map, and really, we dedicated our focus. I think that’s probably it more than anything, and you’ve always been a proponent of that, like, let’s be really good, and let’s, Let’s be actual about what we are and who we are. And so we really defined ourself during that time. We really said, this is what we want to be. And I think having that laser focus, having that ability to do that, which at times was hard for me because I think I do just want to drift and dream and go all over the place and say yes to a lot of things. But I think being diligent about that, maybe being having a lot of people in our office being surrounded by that, if you put your mind to that it comes to fruition. And I think it, it just accelerated that growth rapidly through that time period. And, and look, there are some special projects in my heart in that time that I think actually helped shape all of us. The Perot Museum, even UT Southwestern, which was, probably way bigger than we were ready to handle. I think if you were to ask them, they would tell you, Holy cow, they weren’t ready for that. But it really meant a lot to what we were able to create to Heifer International being able to get on a plane and fly up there every week and learn those all started and began during that time. And honestly, those are still clients all working with us today. But it really helped us. Understand and we really stuck to that. I would just give, a lot of credit to you. A lot of credit to Shyam, who you mentioned, who I think were big advocates for that. Like we need to be somebody by definition and we need to say and to stick to who we want to be. And we need to operate like that. And if we don’t do that, we’ll never get past being just a company that flies by the wind and does whatever comes in the door the next time.
Russel:
Well, I mean, it shows what you shared there. I probably appreciate this a lot more than I even did in the moments of You know how important it is to push yourself as a company. And it’s right as a form of R&D we, I don’t think we ever even really use that term, but just some of those spaces that we were navigating. But I think we just found a really healthy boundary to coming into our own and who we wanted to be, what we wanted to deliver, but still at the same time taking things that still push us and challenges and that seemed to work out really well. Just to even describe the word, I know we use this a lot, but I think sometimes folks out there can forget that there is this need to push results and that’s important, but a lot of the things you were describing as the experience of working with us and what we really started to take to heart internally, externally, and what that really meant. If I think back and just shaped our place in the Dallas market as a business, et cetera.
Phillip:
You said it way better than I did. The experience of where he was and we use that. I mean, that was actually in our presentations. We told people that I I still tell people that like I want your meetings with us. I want every week that you meet with us. I want that to be the best meeting you have on the calendar. All of us have meetings where you’re like, I hope this is over with. And can we get it done fast? I tell every client like If we’re not, we have nothing to talk about. There’s no big deal if it’s that, but I hope that we have so much to talk about and that you enjoy it so much that we’re the one you look forward to and that you don’t want to cut from your calendar each week. And I think we started that during that time period. I think obviously the results, the outputs came and look don’t get me wrong. It’s not that we didn’t have aspirations from a financial standpoint, but I, if I reflect on a time, like that wasn’t the number one thing, like we weren’t going around being like, we want to be 5 million. We knew if we were focused on the inputs, the outputs would follow.
Russel:
I think a huge business lesson for me, it’s almost like looking at the road while you’re running. You cannot be so focused on the dollars. Yeah. If I could probably go back and give myself any one piece of advice in those first five years, take your damn eye off the dollars. Yes, you got to pay bills at the end of the day, but it’s all those things that you said. I love how you put that be the meeting people want to attend, be the best meeting in someone’s day. That’s a, that’s amazingly aspirational. I think a great encapsulation on what is a large amount of time. And to your point, a lot of little things that happened but I think we covered the big pieces. So this whole idea, and a lot of folks that know us and you, know the story of selling. I honestly don’t remember too strongly of just how this idea even came about. It ended up being such a whirlwind. I just, you might just have to remind me here of just for you personally, how did that happen?
Phillip:
Gosh, how did that happen? How it happened may be different. I think we had grown, we’d accelerated and then we were on a high of that growth. And you go through these evolutions of a business. I, I always say, you know, it’s every five years, I think it’s a secret to our success, not a secret cause I’m going to, I’m going to publicly say it. And I say it all the time to people. We’ve remained and have always been extremely agile. Um, we, we change at least every five years and even now, like things are accelerating so fast, we’re changing every couple of years, not completely, but we’re just willing to adapt and learn and grow at all times. And I think we’d hit a point where we had grown, we had gotten to a place where things, Felt really good and I think there was everyone looking around especially in our leadership team Like are we gonna do that again? Are we about to go? Explore that again Should we maybe take some chips off the table? Should we take some of the risk off the table? I think you and I had been through the startup we’d been through about 10 years maybe 12 years of it. Do we want to do it again? Do we want to maybe take the opportunity we’ve created and go from there. I think some ways for us, at least for me, it was, we needed a partner. We needed someone to come in to take the pressure off of us. We have always been a family business. We started this company together. We’ve just been such a close knit family forever. And I think we started this business that way and we’ve always operated that business this way. Most people that are, that work for us are family oriented or have families or close to their families. If you don’t make ends meet, if you make the wrong decision, You’re not only making that decision for your own family, you’re making that decision for their family. I think a lot of times during that growth, we had made it and we’re like, okay, but we put everything into it. Blood, sweat tears time energy everything and I think at some places we all looked at each other and said like I don’t know if we have it necessarily in us a hundred percent without some risk assessment And I think maybe somewhere in there like if we were honest like there was some exhaustion that had set in and we knew that if we were going to carry this torch forward We wanted to make sure that we did it right and that we didn’t risk everything. I remember us actually sitting around saying like, I’m afraid we may make some wrong decisions in the future if we’re, we’re 100 percent on the hook for the risk of this business and the growth of this business. I would still make the same decision. I think we made the right decision for the people, for our clients. At the time there were some hard choices in there, but I think ultimately knowing where we were emotionally. physically at, we needed something to change in order for us to make that next evolution and make that.
Russel:
I don’t know that I’d even have a counterpoint other than ditto to everything you said of just this, this idea that the business needed another shakeup, almost another iteration of bootstrapping. And to the point that just seemed too risky, as you said, without taking some chips off the table. I think it was the right decision for everyone involved. I think that was the most stressful time period of the business when we had found, a partner, to buy the business. And then the whole, just the whole damn process, just this idea of you’re going to wake up one day and life could or could not just be radically different, in terms of planning and process and all those things, which maybe didn’t bother you as much, but, I don’t know. How was that for you?
Phillip:
Yeah, I mean, you all of what you said, but you know, if I look back on it, so, uh, anyone that’s thinking of selling their company and look, in my experience, it takes way longer than you expect. And it, it actually, for a time period, it delays your company. Cause right, most of the time you’re selling, you’re on an upward trajectory, you’re doing really well. You’re wanting to sell at the height of where things are at and you’ve been growing, you’ve been succeeding and people are interested in you now. If you’re selling your company, you’re probably looking for some change in your place, but also someone else is interested in getting in. And I would say no matter what, plan for the year prior to it selling and of two years after it’s selling to probably slow or change your trajectory in that growth more than you anticipate. And I think that’s exactly what you said. Like it became a start, a stop, a stressful moment. For an entire year, we were constantly trying to make sure we were still in the right place, in the right frame, in the right way to present yourself. And so, it became very, very stressful for that year and even the two years after that. I’d even say, if you happen to be a person looking to buy an agency, There are a lot of things that you shouldn’t do when you’re buying an agency that could really hold them or, keep them from growing. But easily, you can easily set it up so that all it does is, have an agency focus on all the wrong things. So, you know, for, for 10, 12, 13 years, we focused on, in at least the last five or six, we were so focused on all the right things. And I think what you’ve, what that stressful time, what we felt is all of a sudden for one to three years, we were focused on all the wrong things. We were focused on what needed to be done to sell a business, what needed to be done to show success, to keep people happy. Like it just changes what you’re focused on and, and you went from focused on client and service and experience and all of a sudden you’re focused on this other thing. And I think that really, it really does change your company’s growth. And I think it, for those that are really passionate about what they created, it’s hard. It’s hard to, to change that. So I would just say no, nothing happens overnight like It always takes longer. Even if you agree to terms, everyone’s like, Oh yeah, this is, yeah, we agree. Then you go into like this entire due diligence process and what you find out is everyone agrees to something on the surface. And then they’re really going to get to the bottom of it because in some ways, right? You basically agree to, to sell and to buy a company and you barely have been dating. Like it’s like getting married without even having a date, a first date. And so what you do is you agree to get married, but then you’re like, all right, let’s date now to see if we like each other. So you go through all this process to learn to experience and it takes months. It takes longer. It takes more months. And you know, you’re, you’re wanting to move as fast as possible. So you’re like, okay, it’s going to take two months. And, and the person buying is like, yeah, but in all reality, they’re, they need to delay it and slow it so that they can see all the things they need to see. They want to see if there’s, Issues and baggage and challenges. And if the shoes about to drop and an agency business, right? That’s pretty important because everyone knows in agencies, you could be propped up by one client, you’d be propped up by one project and you could easily not be successful. I think it became stressful because you knew what pressure it was putting on the actuals of our company, on, on the inside and what it was, and I think you just knew, Maybe either personally or reflective on the company. You needed to step back and just refocus on what we had internally while we just. Call it danced or figured out the dance in between.
Russel:
In hindsight, in talking to other folks, it can seem like such a costly thing to do, but we just raw dogged a transaction in terms of not having any kind of representation or guidance or consulting in this, which, I think back and I think that might’ve been worth if nothing else than the stress alone. Maybe just, have a few. Someone a little closer over our shoulder as we were navigating and figuring this out for the first time. I really remember we were on vacation and I think this is about two weeks before we actually closed and the deal was off, like literally two weeks, we’re like, screw it, let’s off, we’re done. And I was like, all right. I mean, that felt so much better than anything up to that point, just to know that one way or another, we’re not going to do this anymore. What a ride. And it’s funny too, if, to your point, the evidence behind what you’re saying, if you put a line of the entire history of the company’s revenue on a chart the only dip that you will notice is the year that we sold in what 18 year history of the company, to your point, it does take the eye off the ball in terms of running your business.
Phillip:
To yes, and what you said there, I think, finding someone to be alongside you while you do it that is in your corner is a must, a necessity. Like, like you said, we, we raw dogged it. You should never do that. You should absolutely have someone, even if someone just pick up the phone and talk to you and ask you questions like that, that can go a long way to helping someone just know the ins and outs of it. We at Lifeblue a really exciting moment. We actually just bought another company. Uh from an owner operator a starter. It was funny. I was on the other side of buying a company, but I also sat in his shoes So I actually was on the call a lot of times just like giving him advice like hey, here’s what you should think about Here’s why we’re saying this. And I think in the end right like we’re all lying Like even when the company wanted to buy us bought us like everybody wanted success They just didn’t know us well enough once, and so having someone on our side to say, like, how do we help them know us better so that we don’t have to have those kind of things in place or those kind of provisions in there is just so much better. I think you’re absolutely right, not having someone in a corner trying to figure out all by ourselves, like selling a. Selling a company of our size with no one around is just not a yeah, I would not recommend it.
Russel:
We realize that but very late in the game. I remember we were bringing in anybody we could. We had a second and a third lawyer looking at things because our first misstep and where we got our representation, and then, we’re bringing our account man. Can you just jump on this call? And I know this is not accounting per se, but I need your help, man. Yeah, that’s a memory lane. there’s so many more points I can touch to, but you have just a thought on this, but I felt. the day after of the sale of like, for the reason why I put right, Hey, the risk is now off the table. I can make decisions that are the best trenches of life blue. And I don’t necessarily have to factor in myself into that. But beyond that didn’t seem like a lot of things changed other than just maybe pulling off a leash a little bit, even, I don’t know how you think about the post sale and just how you approach the business.
Phillip:
I think you’re absolutely right. I Ways on you to your point two weeks before we were we weren’t going to do it, then we’re going to do it. And then you know that we weren’t that we were and then all over the place. So I think once that’s gone, I think just the level of pressure that was on us was gone. But then also to your point, like maybe the leash of ourselves, maybe the protection we had over the last 18 months to make ourselves Be good, look good, no matter what, when you’re selling, that’s what people look at is what’s on paper. And so I think all of a sudden it really opened up a lot of that okay, now we can be back to who we want to be, what we want to do. I’m a experience of one or a co experience of two here. But I think we were fortunate. I don’t know that we knew that going into it, but we ended up selling to a company that didn’t want to be really involved or didn’t need to be really involved that allowed us to still do what we want to do to trust in, Some of the things there’s always challenges. It’s more people. It’s more egos, more, questions, more thoughts. But at the same time, I think we, we found a partner. So I would say anyone looking to do this. If you’re staying on, make sure you find a partner that believes in the same vision or at least will support your vision. And support your processes. We’re probably also fortunate. We have right after that year of the dip, we’ve gotten back on track and done well and got to do things and bring on people and invest in our business again. But I think that really was it was a relief, right? Sale was over. We were relieved by that situation being over, but it was also a relief to get back to knowing we wanted, who we wanted to be, what we wanted to do. And really back to reinvesting in people in service and process.
Russel:
A great, great way to put it. And to that point, I think because we had taken some of that risk off the table, the company we decided to partner with, and to your point, this is a big point. I heard a quote after our whole transaction, don’t deal with creeps and don’t let the deal creep. Just how important it is in deciding who buys you, especially obviously if you’re going to be sticking around. Because of that, I mean, I feel like it allowed in, what I think was the next big phase for the business was, moving outside of a pure service, approach or as a product for their business, call it SAS, if you will. I honestly don’t even remember because I’m right, it’s, we’re nearing the end of my. But, what is your thoughts on what was that like just to venture off into that? Why was that a play? And what does that also like essentially running two businesses?
Phillip:
So much in there. When you sell a company right, and even when you’re not selling a company, let’s just say, most companies, their goal is to grow, to succeed, to hit sustainability. I think after we got through selling the company, we, after the first couple of years of that, we reflected against what’s next for us now that we’re through all of that. What is our next evolution? It was time. It was probably time before then, but it was really time to look at that. And I think everyone had a desire to, I’ll call it diversify, but more than anything is we really took our purpose. Of trying, trying to focus on impact and the purpose of our organizations. And we always said, we wanted to be able to help the world and we meant that not by just helping every company, but by the impact we had for them, it multiplied their impact in the world. But we felt like we were restricted, like we were only going to be as good or could do as much as the number of people we had in our office because as a service business, you’re mostly people. And so we really wanted to diversify not only our business from a, a sustainability or revenue standpoint, we really want to diversify a business in opportunity of how we could help companies. And so while a service business was a way for us to help Maybe a deep connection. We also want to look a little bit more broad. Now, during that time, we also explored a lot of other services, a lot of other opportunities. We explored a lot. I would just say, thinking that you have the right idea on day one, even if you’re starting a SAS company or a service company. Who we thought we were going to be and what we’ve evolved into has been very different. That was mainly the impetus was we really wanted to expand on what we could do for clients. To do that We really focused on some of our current clients people we had connection with that we felt like we could learn from And start a product, a SAS company, a company that focused on ARR, MRR, something very different than we were from focusing on value based pricing and deliverables to someone that focused on, metrics around those types of things. But more than anything is, could we bring on more clients, broaden our client base and help more in the industries that we felt like we were trying to approach? And I’ll tell you, we’re still in the infancy of that or maybe not infancy. We’ve succeeded in a lot of places, but we’re still learning a lot. And I would say starting a SAS company alongside a service company is actually really, really difficult. I’m not going to lie about it. It’s definitely hard. and more than anything is, is maybe it’s not even a service in a SAS company. It’s starting a company that are on two different timelines in terms of business growth. And business maturity. We have a service business has been around for 15 years that has learned and grown and been through all the trials and tribulations. And that’s amazing. And all of a sudden you throw in this brand new startup that has Is supposed to know nothing and you don’t want it to bring all the history of that because you’re trying something new and a whole different operating model. That’s really, really difficult. And then we took all the people from the agency that learned for 10 years on how to deliver service. And we said, by the way, now go deliver an entirely different thing and don’t do it the way the service business does it. And I would say, If you could start it by, being more separate, I think you would be more successful. We, we couldn’t or we didn’t know how. We didn’t do that. We started it as an incubator inside of our own business, which I think a lot of businesses do. And, and again, uh, if you came to me again and started said, start another SaaS, I’d probably do it from an incubator.’cause I know how to do that now. But at the same time, if you could start it as more of a spinoff or something independent, I think you’d be a lot, it would be a lot easier than where we’re at today in terms of trying to now figure out how to separate the businesses in more totality than where they were.
Russel:
It speaks to the idea of just the different cultures each one needs in those stages. But even when you think about just the way you approach the business when you’re getting it off the ground versus the way you approach an established business. But, when you bleed those cultures together or blend, I guess it’d be a better word. It makes it, makes it interesting. I think we caught ourselves up to mostly present. You mentioned just the recent acquisition, obviously that’s a huge, another milestone in the business. And I’ve gotten to see that a little bit from the outside, but it’s been fascinating to just even the glimpse I’ve had of being on the other side of the table, but how does that just really think about that fit into why did you do that and how does it fit into the overall business goals
Phillip:
I think a couple of things. I think it’s actually a reflection on how important we feel like our service business not only is to us, but to our clients, to the people, one thing when you start a sass company or one way that we did it, we built it out of an incubator out of our agency by ourselves. Partnering with some of our clients and understanding their needs and applying that for a product and then building a product company, it was the same people from our agency. Now we’ve been able to hire people directly within that and during the last couple of years, we’ve tried to section people off or at least keep it a little more contained. But one of the things that we also did was how do we, how do you fund a startup? Because a SAS company, it needs money to begin and we use the agency to do that. And so not only did we take people, we took, revenue value, and we applied it to the growth of a product company and it’s been great It’s allowed us to do that and so fortunate that our agency has been successful enough to be able to apply that. But I will say, you know coming into the last couple of years We felt like we hadn’t invested at the same rate in our service growth and in our agency And that we had not forgotten about but it had to put a lot of its aspirations on pause to allow our product company, our SaaS company to turnstile to grow. And I think that’s maybe the biggest mistake that I made over the last three years is that I, I basically went from, a company that’s really established to making it and almost forcing it back into a bootstrap mode. It was having to cut corners and figure things out and under resource. And I think we had to own that. I’ve had to go to clients and say, like, we failed. I had to go to people and say, we failed. We did too much of eyes over here and not enough over here. And so this last couple of years, I said, we’ve got to get back to equal partnership and our product company needs to live on its own and have its own trajectory in our SAS, our agency business needs to live on its own and have its own trajectory. And so part of that was reinvesting back in the agency, and we just had an opportunity. I think it’s always been on the table for us. I think even when we started, Turnstyle, it was actually some conversations we were having about something like this. And we just put those on the back burner and in time, and we got a chance this year to really bring that back and to bring that to fruition. And I think it was really, it was an injection of opportunity and injection investment back in our agency in people. We brought on about 20 new team members that are amazing. Just such great talent. We brought on new clients, great clients. I’m so excited for them to be here and I think everyone is going to benefit from that works with our service business from the people that are here, uh to our clients and everything So I think it was reflecting on that bootstrapping and that What we did to the agency and saying we’re not going to do this anymore and we must really invest. And I would say that anyone thinking of starting a SAS company, uh, by all means, the path by which you get there, there’s probably a million different ways to do it. The one number one thing I would change is I would not so much hamstring our agency and its growth and opportunity to start it. If that means limiting or slowing the success of our product company, I would. Because, and maybe it’s us, I still, I just love our agency, it’s so much us so much who you and I are and what we created that I don’t want to see it not succeed. And in that passion for that business, I want to make sure that it doesn’t lose sight or doesn’t lose opportunity just because we started a product company alongside it.
Russel:
Great perspective. I don’t know if you could sum this up in an answer, but if there was a young Phillip or Russel out there just saying,”Hey, Phillip, I really want to do what you guys did. What’s your profound words of wisdom that you would give them?
Phillip:
I’ve got kids not at the age of being, hitting the workforce yet, but I have kids that I, I often, uh, hoped at some world, some way I impart some wisdom on them. Maybe not. Maybe I hope that they are actually just so much better than I am. But at the same time, I look at it and I would say, I just am so fond of what we created. So I would say, absolutely do it. Don’t hold yourself back. Do it. Do it in a time when you may not have as much, responsibility or risk. But at the same time, no, no time is a good time to start a business. It’s no time is a good time to start a family, or have kids. If you show you, the old, the anecdote is basically do it whenever it happens. It’s never going to be the perfect time. It’s never going to be the perfect moment, but I would absolutely do it. I would maybe the difference, there’s a lot more people that have done this now. In our industry, in the agency industry. So if it’s in this industry specifically, find a mentor, find something that you like to listen to learn from, to grow from, do a lot of research. I think more than anything though, and this is, I tell this to everyone that starts at Lifeblue. I tell this to my kids, there’s two things that I would tell you that would make you most successful. And this is whether you’re starting a company or starting a job, um, find something you’re passionate about and it will never be a job. It means you will love it. You will be a part of it. Um, I know there’s a lot of talk in today’s world about, work life balance and a healthy mentality and relationship. And I fully believe in that, but I will tell you that sometimes the way to do that is to find something you love because it is so much healthier on yourself on your life and you’re so much more passionate, so much more rewarding when you love what you do. So as long as you love what you do, I guarantee you is probably going to be more successful and more, more likely to succeed. I think second, whether you’re starting a company. Or you are starting a job, put yourself in the shoes of running that company. Make sure that you you put yourself every day in running that company. So if you’re going into the service business, put yourself in the shoes of your clients. What’s their business? What’s their challenge? What do they face every day? If you don’t succeed with them, what is that going to do for their career? Will they lose their job? Will they have opportunity? Will you make them the hero of that story of that organization? And I said, put yourself in the shoes of that. And ultimately you will learn empathy, you’ll learn understanding, you’ll learn all the things you need. Young me thought I had to do everything to be great and it was to prove that I was great. Like I, it was like an inferiority complex. I had to feel like I had to do great. I think older me knows that I just need everyone else around me to be better than I am. And then that ultimately you’re going to end up with a really, really great company. So surround yourself with people that are way better than you are trust in them, that they’re going to do some great things. And even if they fail, don’t jump in to fix it. Don’t to your point, don’t go be a, don’t go be fixing things on a side hustle. Just make sure that you know that everyone’s going to learn from that and grow from that. And really, they’re probably going to be way better at it at the end of the day than you are ever going to be.
Russel:
Beautifully put. It’s funny when I think back and my own journey and that just you’re saying about this idea and you mentioned several times in the episode of When I think back in my own piece, I didn’t ever love digital. I’m going to be honest about that. That was never a passion of mine. I loved entrepreneurism, I loved the people. I love building something. And I think that’s ultimately where I’d say was a big part of my decision to, to step away is, We’d created a business where other people were taking care of all those things that I loved and my work here is done and I want to go do something I’m passionate about. That can be a hard decision, right? I mean, tears were happening when we were announcing this to the team, the company. I do commend folks that takes courage to step away from something that’s good to do something that you love. Well, I would love to keep talking for hours and hours and hours. This has been so great to go down memory lane here. I guess I’ll just ask you the last question that I typically ask everyone is, are entrepreneurs born or are they made?
Phillip:
Oh, wow. Maybe a combo of both. That’s a great question. And you know, it’s funny. I’ve listened to your podcast many, many, many times. And I know you asked that question. I did not come prepared for an answer. Maybe, maybe that’s good. You know, I think it’s a little bit of both because if I look at, and obviously I know your, your childhood story, like I think you were, you were an entrepreneur, you were, uh, 20 years before you and I even met each other. I maybe didn’t have the same trajectory, but if you look back at the things I was doing, like I was already a creator. I was already into the idea of creating something into service that way before then, like it was a makeup of who I am. And it’s still a makeup of who I am. But at the same time, I think that we had to hone that and make that into reality because I think there’s a lot of entrepreneurs out there That they’re, they’re born into it. They are, it’s a part of their DNA, but they don’t know how to use it. Candidly, I don’t, I mean, I, you and I both know this, like, I don’t think if you, you or I did it alone, we would have been able to help, we would have been able to figure it out. If I went into this alone, I never would have made it to where I was. I think we were the perfect equal parts of our entrepreneurship came in together. But I think in our DNA it’s in there, but I also think that it, we had to make something of it. We had to turn it into something. Everyone wants to be what the outcome of being an entrepreneur is of starting your own business, selling your business. But to do that, we had to make that like that didn’t happen just because we were born into it.
Russel:
Perfectly put. I, I honestly, I don’t know. I think maybe one time someone turned around that question to me and I don’t remember how I answered it, but I’m just again, I’m going to say ditto to that answer because I think that’s a great one. Well, if people want to know more about Lifeblue, where can they go?
Phillip:
Definitely reach out to me, or anyone in our office. Our doors are always open. I literally mean that, anytime. Obviously I sleep at night, but that doesn’t mean that I won’t, answer you the next day. come to our website, follow us on LinkedIn. We are constantly pushing things there. I would love to hear from anyone and hear anyone else’s stories. So please do. I’d love to continue any conversation anyone wants to have.
Russel:
Thank you for putting out that there. If you want his phone number to call him late at night, just come ask me folks, I’ll give it to you. Yeah, I definitely do. I’m sure he’ll appreciate that. I don’t even know what to say at this point. For first and foremost, it was it was great. Obviously we know each other really well and talk a lot, but, not often do we get to just spend the dedicated time to just go through the entirety of our journey together. Really enjoyed the conversation. Thank you for sharing so many wonderful insights, Phil. I’m sure I’ll see you this weekend or something.
Phillip:
Yeah, yeah, of course. Yeah, I feel like, some way we need, the extended version of this where we just tell all the funny stories about things that we did stupidly, we had no idea what was about to happen.
Russel:
We could have an Agency After Dark podcast or something if we wanted to.
Phillip:
Yeah, exactly. From recess to trying to set up our own servers.
Russel:
Yeah, we have a long list of interesting things over the years, but it was all the R and D and part of the process.
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Phillip:
I mentioned our our first office office out of cotton mill. And again, I don’t think it was legal. And I always think about the most hilarious things that happened. While we were in that office that again, we were so young and most people around us were young. We had recess during the day. So we play outside like in the 100 degree Texas heat and they come in sweaty. But even then there’s two memories of being in an office that just absolutely as I think back like I’m like, Oh my gosh, we’re a successful business. I can’t believe we started in those moments. One of them and a hawk got into the cotton mill. And we had to go up because it was flying into the windows and everything. And so we went up to try to help get it out. We called animal services and they told us we couldn’t mess with it. Like it was a protected animal. So like they couldn’t come get it and we couldn’t let it out. So like if it wanted to live in the cotton mill, we had to let it live in the cotton mill. And we went up like to the floor where it was on and it was like dive bombing us. Like it was like coming at us. Like it was going to attack us. In the head, right? And this is our employees, like we’re responsible for them. And we’re like, yeah, let’s go up and check out this hawk that’s dive bombing us in this situation. On top of that, we were above, we’re above this company that made basically dinosaurs for museums, like huge, sculptures out of some type of polyurethane or something. And they would spray paint, every day in the building. They would spray paint these, dinosaurs and these sculptures. And I can remember it would just smell horrendous. And not only smell, like it would be so much spray paint that it would be like cloudy all over the place. And I remember I was sitting there working We had three or four people that worked for us at the time We told people it’s oh, yeah, just get used to it’s fine Like no big deal like you definitely want to work here at this company that where it sprays You know and it smells and not only that Like you literally got high like you were getting high off paint fumes. And so I remember one time I was sitting there and had been spraying for like hours And I would remind I remember like I was sitting writing emails I was just getting I was high like I could not I could barely walk like my head was just spinning I was completely out of As sources, so I walked down to the guy because they were really nice and like they knew we were up there and I knocked on the door and the guy comes out in a gas mask and I was like, Hey man, you got to stop spraying like we’re all like we’re all up there working. He’s like, Dude, you shouldn’t be in here while it’s spraying. And I was like, yeah, that’s what I’m trying to tell you. Like you should be outside at this as spraying, stop spraying in the building. So I just think back to that. I cannot believe that we had a company that office there. I can’t believe that people work for us. While we were there and those are just two of the many, probably a million hilarious things that happen when you’re officing out of a building is probably has no occupancy sticker out front.
Russel:
The building should have been condemned. You say like a legal, like this thing was like, I don’t, I don’t think people can really understand how, dodgy this entire building was. And we could probably hold the whole podcast just on random office things, that, that went on there. But a fun fact too is made me think of you describing that there was another up and coming startup that went on to quite some acclaim that was just coming off the ground in there for the folks that may have played this game. But the Words with Friends, folks were in the same dire, dirty, dodgy office building that we were, just as they were beginning that game.
Phillip:
Yeah, I actually remember the day that they hit number one on the app store. I remember them like screaming and jumping up and down and like, they were all just like falling out of this office. It’s like five or six. I’m very small. They just came flying out of the office, like running around screaming, like, What just happened? And at the time we didn’t really know words with friends and they’re like, her app just hit number one. We’re like, wow, crazy. In this office, like we have the number one app in the app store in this place.
